River of Words Oral History Project: Robin Alexander, "Solidaridad," and the Words' Multiple Uses

On February 22nd I had the opportunity to speak with Robin Alexander, a former worker in the United Electrical workers union, who herself has helped organize an international mural project. her word is "Solidaridad," "Solidarity." River of Words was a complicated project, one that, for Robin, has been framed in the media as a critique of the Venezuelan government, a critique that she would have preferred not to have been a part of. However, she has reframed her word such that it continues to have an oppositional charge, to have meaning for her. She noted: "Solidaridad [was] ....a perfect fit given my work, and so that—you know, I was really happy initially, and then I was really upset, and then I was trying to decide how to think about it, how do I think about this because I do believe that art should be political, but I felt somewhat used because I would not have chosen to participate—so I had to decide what to do. And so what I did is I write a letter to the editor, I raised it with people, and it just happened that right at that period was when Israel attacked Gaza and so there was actually a demonstration in Oakland, I think it was the evening for the reception for the project, and I had been planning to come [to the reception] and express my concerns and instead I decided my time and energy were probably better spent participating in the demonstration, so I went to that, and the organizers were mostly young and they had created some wonderful signs. They were, sort of, heavy, not cardboard...and they had red hand-prints and the name and age of all of the children who had been killed in the bombing, so I got one of those signs, and at the end of the demonstration they said “If you are going to attend another demonstration or have another use for the sign you can keep it, otherwise please turn it back in” and I thought “Oh, well maybe I do have a use for the sign.” So I kept it and I took it home and I attached it under my Solidaridad word."

"Solidaridad." Image courtesy of Robin Alexander.

Thanks, Robin!

Transcript follows:

 

CB: So I’m here with Robin Alexander, the date is February 22, 2015, as part of the River of Words Oral History project, so, thanks for being with me, Robin.

RA: Sure.

CB: I wanted to start by asking some basic demographic information, because one of the things I want to learn is about the diversity of folks involved in the project.

RA: Is this video or audio?

CB: Audio. So if we could start with your full name, address, age, marital status, race you identify with, and if you need reminding about the various categories, I’d be happy to remind you.

RA: Okay. My name is Robin Alexander, I live at 1926 Perrysville Avenue, which is sort of up the hill from here. I am sixty-one. I am single. And I am European-American.

CB: Okay. And how long have you lived in the North Side?

RA: About twenty-five years.

CB: And you mentioned earlier that you’ve lived in Pittsburgh for 30 years?

RA: Yes.

CB: Do you know if your house falls within the historic district?

RA: It does not, I live up the hill in a different neighborhood.

CB: So I wanted to turn to the River of Words project now and talk a bit about that. Can you tell me about how you became involved in the project, and the experience that you had?

RA: Yeah, I’ve attended a lot of the City of Asylum events, so at one of them someone asked if I would do this and I said ‘sure’ and then afterwards it occurred to me that this project actually might be used as a platform to criticize the Venezuelan government and I wasn’t interested in participating if that had been the case, so I’d asked both the City of Asylum and the arts funders if it would be used that way, and they said “Oh, no no no! that wasn’t in the proposal, that’s not the intent at all” so I said “Okay,” and then of course that it was!

CB: In what way?

RA: There were articles both in the City Paper and in the Post Gazette and I was pretty upset, actually, so I wound up actually writing and getting a letter to the editor published in the Post Gazette and I spoke to people afterwards.

CB: So I’m not super familiar with the content of all of the project I’ve been more talking to people word by word about what they picked and what it meant to them. So do you mind telling me what parts of the project were, to you, a critique of the Venezuelan government?

RA: Oh, that it was, there were, you know its been a long time now so I can’t tell you exactly but in one case there was an interview with one of the writers and in the other I think it was based on discussions that the person who wrote the article sort of used those discussions to say that Venezuela is a dictatorship and some other things.

CB: So kind of how the project was framed in the media?

RA: Yes. Okay, okay that’s helpful.

CB: So what word did you end up choosing?

RA: Solidaridad.

CB: That makes sense, given your work with the union [international electrical workers].

RA: Well, it was a perfect fit given my work, and so that—you know, I was really happy initially, and then I was really upset, and then I was trying to decide how to think about it, how do I think about this because I do believe that art should be political, but I felt somewhat used because I would not have chosen to participate—so I had to decide what to do. And so what I did is I write a letter to the editor, I raised it with people, and it just happened that right at that period was when Israel attacked Gaza and so there was actually a demonstration in Oakland, I think it was the evening for the reception for the project, and I had been planning to come [to the reception] and express my concerns and instead I decided my time and energy were probably better spent participating in the demonstration, so I went to that, and the organizers were mostly young and they had created some wonderful signs. They were, sort of, heavy, not cardboard, what do you call that stuff?

CB: Particle board?

RA: No, they were heavy paper, I guess, and they had red hand-prints and the name and age of all of the children who had been killed in the bombing, so I got one of those signs, and at the end of the demonstration they said “If you are going to attend another demonstration or have another use for the sign you can keep it, otherwise please turn it back in” and I thought “Oh, well maybe I do have a use for the sign.” So I kept it and I took it home and I attached it under my Solidaridad word.

CB: What kinds of reactions or interactions did that inspire?

RA: Actually, the only one came from my neighbors who said “Cool.”

CB: That’s interesting. Also coming off of, on Pitt’s campus there is the Conflict Kitchen—

RA: This was before that, actually.

CB: Yeah, but its interesting when controversy happens, and when it doesn’t.

RA: Yes, yes.

CB: Okay, and so six months later, can you tell me about the impact that displaying this word has had in your life? Has it changed in meaning for you? Has it caused any other interactions or anecdotes that you feel comfortable sharing?

RA: No, I mean, I’ve gotten a couple of inquiries about, “I’ve seen words sort of around in this neighborhood, why are they there?” but beyond that no one’s really commented. I live across the street from Triangle Tech so there are a lot of students who walk up and down my hill even though it’s a really quiet street and not many people live on the street, so I imagine a lot of people have actually seen it, but I haven’t had conversations with them about it.

CB: OK Cool. So I’m going to turn to the Historic Review Commission situation, so, are you aware of what is going on with the HRC, and if so, do you have any thoughts  about what should be done with the words?

RA: Well, I know that there was an issue about whether the people within the Mexican War Streets would be able to leave their words on their homes.

CB: Do you have any opinions on whether they should. Because the way I understand it is that they are seeking an exemption to allows the words to stay up indefinitely.

RA: Oh, I hadn’t realized that but I certainly would support that.

CB: Finally I want to ask about your thoughts more generally about public art, in the North Side and in Pittsburgh, if you could speculate on who it serves, and the general social function that it has?

RA: I think that public art is tremendously important. And at least here in Pittsburgh my impression is that the sprout fund had been raelly significant in helping to fund public art. There are murals throughout the city. I’ve traveled pretty extensively and so you see public art in other places much more than you generally do in this country. Who does it serve? Well, to some extent I think that depends on how its funded and who does the art, and we were talking a little bit before this interview about how in my work I had helped facilitate the creation of several murals and it was a really interesting experience because it was as a labor union, it was very very difficult to get funding for that kind of art even though the artists were fabulous and the products were really wonderful.

CB: Was it difficult to get funding because people didn’t want to give to labor unions?

RA: Yes.

CB: So just a general anxiety about labor unions, U.S. proclivities towards capitalism?

RA: Yes.

CB: That makes sense. So I’d like to circle back to your earlier discussion about how you felt a little bit frustrated by the framing of this project. Do you have any thoughts about what, maybe, should be involved in future instantiations of this project or in general in terms of making the process more transparent and more participatory?

RA: I’m not sure exactly what you are asking.

CB: I guess I am asking if you think there is a better way to have gone about the process of developing this project such that the media framing that you talked about would have been less possible. The framing you suggest that, even though this project could be read in a number of ways, the fact that it was prevalently pitched as a critique of the Venezuelan government. Do you think there was a better way to have gone about it to create a different end result?

RA: I’m not sure because I guess I think that artists should have the right to express themselves and their views. I guess my problem is that today in the United States I don’t think the problem is with what’s happening in Venezuela, its with how its being presented here in the U.S. and how our government is supporting the right-wing forces in Venezuela. And so, I think the issue is, is that the sort of project that we would want to have here? And, I don’t know. In a way, it wound up being sort of disguised as an innocent community project.

CB: That’s fascinating. Is there anything else you would like to say that I haven’t given you an opportunity to talk about?

RA: Well, in spite of all of this, I really do like the City of Asylum, and I think they have done some really fabulous programming and I’m going to continue to go to their events, but this has certainly made me think, perhaps more deeply,  about the role of public art, and who makes decisions, and I guess going back to your question, I don’t know how this project came about, or who decided to do it, or how it was to be done, but I guess, if I had been asked beforehand I certainly would’ve had a viewpoint to have expressed that perhaps wasn’t expressed, and I would’ve appreciated the opportunity to have contributed that.

CB: Alright, thanks so much.

River of Words Oral History Project: Jennifer Tharp, "Zombies," and art as community connector

I met with Jennifer on February 22, 2015. She is a visual artist who lives in the Mexican War Streets and her word is "Zombies." In addition to the interactive element of the installation (she and her husband will playfully scare passersby who are checking out the word, growling and snarling like zombies) it also exemplifies the educational possibility of public art. She notes: “It helps people grow. And I think there are kids around here who might never get a chance to go to the museums, or they only know art through popular culture or music and when they see pieces like this on somebody’s home I think they take ownership of it in a really great way. It becomes a part of their identity in a way that maybe afterschool arts programs or parental efforts might not be able to reach fully. …Kids, kids in the summer. When they are just knocking around the neighborhood I’ll notice that kids who might be kind of bored and who might be normally causing trouble haven’t thrown rocks or tried to take down any of the signs. They start asking neighbors questions. They start getting really excited about it and say, “Maybe I can put one on my house!” They come up with ideas and it brings out the best in kids, and then they get to talk to their family and friends about it. And I love seeing that light burn in kids I don’t even know. Don’t cry, don’t cry. It makes me feel really excited because it seems like a little thing, it’s a word on a wall, but its magical. Its really fun.”

Thanks, Jennifer! Transcript follows.

CB: SO the date is February 22, 2015 and I am here with Jennifer Tharp as part of the River of Words Oral History Project. Thanks so much for being here with me.

JT: Thank you for having me.

CB: I'd like to start with demographic stuff, I am trying to get a sense of the diversity of participants, so, what is your address, full name, age, marital status, race. I can prompt you if necessary.

JT: What do you want to know first?

CB: How about your full name.

JT: My name is Jennifer Tharp, and I live at 420 North Taylor Avenue here in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.

CB: How old are you?

JT: I am 43 years old.

CB: You do not look 43.

JT: Thanks.

CB: Marital status?

JT: I have been with my beloved for almost fourteen years now.

CB: Congratulations. What ethnicity do you identify with?

JT: I'd say Irish-German.

CB: Irish-German-America. You are close to Deutscheland[town], perfect.

JT: Yeah [laughs].

CB: How long have you lived in the North Side?

JT: We have lived here, lets see, we moved here in October of 2007.

CB: And how long have you lived in Pittsburgh?

JT: Since then. We moved from Seattle, where we met.

CB: Ok, so cloudy to another cloudy place.

JT: Yes, it was a nice transition, but I'm originally from Honolulu so this is very exotic for me, and people might think it is funny that I say it is exotic, but it surely is.

CB: That's gotta be way different. How often do you get back there?

JT: I haven't been back for 10 years.

CB: Its probably really expensive [to travel there].

JT: My whole family still lives there, I am overdue for another visit.

CB: Interesting. An artist friend in Chicago just went back to Hawai'i so he posted all these gorgeous pictures, you know, hanging out there.

JT: My brother does that regularly, he is a photographer, so I just think "Damn you!" But also "Post more, I'd love to see more."

CB: Absolutely. Do you know within your house falls within the historic district?

JT: Yes it does.

CB: And which historic district? I guess I have to specify that.

JT; The Mexican War Streets Historical District. And I believe its the original historical district, because our street, Taylor, was named after General Taylor from the Mexican War.

CB: Excellent. So I'm going to turn now to the River of Words project. Can you tell me how you became involved; what that experience was like; etc.

JT: Well, David and I have been coming to City of Asylum events since we moved here and whenever we hear they are doing something we check it out. This was another series of events that was happening I think I believe during the summer. since we are both artists we love to help participate in other artists' projects if we can so we've been involved in several since we've been here, and we just thought this was fun so we walked down to the tent and saw what was happening.

CB: What word did you pick?

JT: We were kind of one of the first people there so we got a great look at what was available and a lot of lovely words, it was kind of hard to choose, but when we saw "Zombies," we knew, we laughed and we thought "Yes, that is our word." [Laughs] "Library" and "Love" were very high on the list but zombies won out.

CB: Why "Zombies"?

JT: Well, we've been really big fans of the walking dead recently and the fact that our city is often connected with zombie movies, we just thought, Night of the Living Dead and things like that and we just though "How perfect is this?" And its a little cheeky, and its a touch of halloween which we love, and so we though "All the things. This is perfect."

CB: And, can you tell me now, six months later, what has the impact of displaying this word had on your life? And what kind of interactions, perhaps, has it inspired?

JT: Its been wonderful. It makes us laugh everytime we see it. Its prominently displayed on our blue fence on Sampsonia, because the front of our house is on Taylor and the back of our house is on Sampsonia which connects, just down from City of Asylum, so its been really fun to see people walk by and they are coming here or going anywhere, and oh, when it first came up they were saying "Oh, look at that one! There's another one" and we would hear them when we were in the Garden, and people thought it was funny, and we would often scare people when they came by to look at the word, and they love it. We would crouch down behind our fence, and when we knew people were gathering around to look at the word or take photos, which they often do, people love to take photos of that one, we would reach over the fence with curled, gnarled hands and growl or snarl at them, and they scream, and they laugh, and it just never gets old. Its really fun. People come back for more, and they want us to take photos of them pretending to be scared with David having his hands over the fence, so its not just a lovely installation, its become a really interactive piece.

CB: Have you met any new neighbors because of it, or had conversations that maybe you wouldn't have had otherwise?

JT: Yeah, I think everybody who has a word on their home or next door to somebody who has one, its a source of pride now. People are very excited about it. We love to say "What's this word?" or "I met " instead people used to say "Oh, I met 420 Taylor," or "I'm here on Resaca" or what not. People now identify their homes with the word they have, so, I enjoy that.

CB: Thats really interesting. So I"m going to shift a little bit now to the Historic Review Commission controversy, so, are you aware of that, and if so, do you have thoughts on what should be done and kind of whats happening?

JT: I am aware of it. David and I are very sensitive to the preservation or at least the upkeep of our historic homes, at least the facade because it gives our neighborhood a continuity. And it was important that these were not destroyed in the 70s -- when the whole horrible sweep of the 60s and 70s was going on through the city. So we really want to keep our home the way it is. But we think that this sort of art installation only enhances what we have here in our neighborhood. I think the justapositon between a new, basically no impact art installation on these beautiful historic homes is just fantastic, its the best of both worlds, I think.

CB: So, what do you think should be done about it?

JT: Well I understand that some of the neighbors have gone to the city, and asked as a group if we can be permitted to keep the pieces on our homes and I think it’s a good sign that everybody is so unanimous on it, especially when you get a bunch of people with a lot of opinions, but I think we are really galvanized around this, and the fact that the City of Asylum has been so wonderful, to neighbors but also to the art world in what they produce, we really want to make sure that those things are protected and supported.

CB: Yeah. More generally, what do you think the purpose of public art is, in the North Side but maybe in Pittsburgh more broadly?

JT: I think its for beauty. Its for dialogue between people. It starts conversations. I think especially maybe not in our neighborhood immediately but in the North Side in general it is really important that those of us who are artists and/or support the arts, I think it’s a responsibility of ours to share outside ideas with the rest of the neighborhood and the rest of the city and the world. It helps people grow. And I think there are kids around here who might never get a chance to go to the museums, or they only know art through popular culture or music and when they see pieces like this on somebody’s home I think they take ownership of it in a really great way. It becomes a part of their identity in a way that maybe afterschool arts programs or parental efforts might not be able to reach fully.

CB: Can you give a couple of examples that you’ve noticed of that?

JT: Kids, kids in the summer. When they are just knocking around the neighborhood I’ll notice that kids who might be kind of bored and who might be normally causing trouble haven’t thrown rocks or tried to take down any of the signs. They start asking neighbors questions. They start getting really excited about it and say, “Maybe I can put one on my house!” They come up with ideas and it brings out the best in kids, and then they get to talk to their family and friends about it. And I love seeing that light burn in kids I don’t even know. Don’t cry, don’t cry. It makes me feel really excited because it seems like a little thing, it’s a word on a wall, but its magical. Its really fun.

CB: Can you tell me about the kind of art you do?

JT: I am learning to be a web developer now. I’m a visual artist, photography, illustrator, and I’m transitioning, well, not really transitioning, just broadening my skill set, and David [Jenn’s husband] is a visual designer, working on a t-shirt line right now, its very exciting.

CB: Awesome. Have you displayed public photos in the neighborhood?

JT: Only in my home. But I’ve been nudged quite enthusiastically to put my work out there, its just I get a little nervous about it, but we have such a great creative environment here, a lot of professional artists here, a lot of patrons of the arts, a lot of just curious people. So if anybody finds you are creative and you are not showing it they feel a little gipped, like “Scuse me! Where’s your stuff? You should do something!” So, I really enjoy that.

CB: Are there any other comments or anecdotes that you’d like to share that I haven’t given you a chance to speak to?

JT: No, other than, just, this is a wonderful project [River of Words] and the artists were truly just lovely. They were really accommodating, very curious about why we chose our word, what we liked about the River of Words project, they were just very open to suggestions and they were very respectful of our property not that we were—they just made it an effortless installation. And it was nice to see them around, putting their work up everywhere. So we really enjoyed that.

River of Words Oral History Project: Jeff White and Rebecca Frazier, "Fly," and "Ditirambos"

On February 22nd I interviewed Jeff Frazier and Rebecca White, a couple who lives in Deutschtown. Their words are "ditirambos" ("dithyrambics") and "fly." Rebecca observed of the project: "Its so cool. And you meet people and then you kind of-- like I met this woman Sharon at the opening event and I couldn't remember her name-- she said her word was "Baseball" so I saw her out in public one time and I just looked at her and I said "Baseball! I don't remember your name, I'm sorry, but I know you are the baseball house." So I think it brings community together. It is interesting when you meet someone that has the word and what it means to them, its a conversation starter, I think it would be a shame to lose." In this conversation they also spoke about their attraction to the neighborhood that is still in the process of development, a historical moment where they feel that residents can and are "working towards a common goal," with the City of Asylum as a prominent feature of that struggle.

Thanks, Jeff and Rebecca! Transcript follows:

CB: Alright so I am here with Jeff Frazier and Rebecca White as part of the River of Words Oral History Project and thanks for being with me and bearing with my lack of orientation.

JF: Sure.

CB: So I want to begin with some demographic data, I want to get a sense of the diversity of folks who have negaged with the River of Words project. So can we start with your address, age, marital status, and what race or identity you identify with.

JF: I think we are white.

RW: Caucasian. We live on 1330 James Street, and that's over on the hospital side, so we are not in the Historic District, we are married, and, what was the other question?

JF: I'm 56 she's 45. I'm 59 she's 45. [Laughter]

RW: [This is] going well.

JF: That's the year I was born, '56.

CB: Alright. Excellent. And how long have you lived on the North Side?

JF: Four years last month.

CB: And how long have you lived in Pittsburgh?

JF: Uh...

RW: Twenty-ish.

JF: 25, 30 years. Yeah.

CB: What historic district are you in because I know there are different ones.

JF: We are in Deutschtown, which is also called East Allegheny.

RW: But we are North of North Avenue so we are not actually a historic district.

JF: We're technically not in the historic district. Actually our house is brand new, we built it four years ago, but it looks like an old Victorian.

CB: So you aren't in a historic district.

JF: Technically we are not.

CB: It is really interesting, the quilt pattern of overlapping historic districts.

RW: Right.

JF: The neighborhood of Deutschtown is a historic district, but we are a block above the boundary for where that technically ends. All of the War Streets, it ends at, I can't remember.

CB: OK. Great. So now I want to turn to the River of Words Project. Can you all tell me about how you found out about it, what your experience of being involved was like.

RW: Well I--

JF: She sent me an email.

RW: Well I actually, I'm on the mailing list for City of Asylum so I know whats going on and I read about it and it sounded really cool so we signed up, sent an email, and just asked if we could be part of the project, and then we didn't hear anything for a while and I wrote back and they did say that they had words left.

JF: We were towards the end, we didn't have that many choices.

RW: We only had the choice of five or ten words at the time or something, so yeah, so...

JF: And we originally chose "ditirambos" which we looked up on the internet sort of meant "poetry" in Spanish, and they showed up and put the word on the glass on our front door and then, I don't know if you've met Israel or any of the people

CB: I met him this morning.

JF: I told him about you he had no idea, I ran into him last week. Anyhow, the five of them came over, we were eating dinner, it was like a communication thing because of the language, they were supposed to call us and they just showed up and they kind of stormed into our house and all five of them were talking at like 95-miles-a-minute and just taking pictures of my house and flashes were going off everywhere and they put the word on, took photos of us in front of the door, and then they left. I don't know if it was the next day or later that night they sent us an email and asked, they said, "We really love your house would you like another word?" so we said "OK. Call us." That was a Saturday night, "Call us Sunday, we'll make sure we're home and we'll meet you there and choose a word." So we are over at Whole Foods or something and we get an email and its like "We're in front of your house" and then they sent us a picture holding up the word that they chose, and we are like "That's fine." And they put that in the mortar.

CB: What word?

RW: Actually, they told us some of the words previously they gave us the three words and "Fly" was one of the words which we ended up getting, but I was like, "I don't want 'Fly"" I thought of the insect at first, and I was just like, "That's the last word I want." So they sent us a text message holding up the word "Fly" and its in this beautiful script, and my son was actually leaving for his graduate program in Arizona, like, several days later so I was like "that's the perfect word." So I ended up loving it.

JF: Her only child is flying off.

RW: Yeah. So it made a little more sense to me. I didn't think so much of the bug.

CB: You can read it on many different levels.

RW: Yeah exactly, you can read into the words in so many different ways, with different meanings.

JF: Yeah, and we had no idea what "ditirambos" meant when we chose it, we just thought "Ah, that's a cool sounding word." 

CB: Great. So now, six months later, has your relationship to your words changed at all?

JF: I don't know. We chose to keep them on as long as they will stand up, and they don't seem to be showing any wear and tear. We plan on keeping them there.

CB: Has the meaning changed at all?

RW: I don't think so, no. I think its nice when people come over and they don't know what its all about and to hear reactions. 

JF: We enjoy the weird reactions. This guy who works at the hospital, he parks up the street, and he walks by our house all the time and we chat with him, and he came up to us and said "Did you guys start a home business?" and we were like "No, why?" and he was like "Well you have that sign on your house." [Laughter]

RW: ANd the UPS person too. He said, "What is this all about? I drive around and deliver in different areas," so, yeah.

JF: I'm sure you are aware it has also become a point of contention here on the War Streets there are lawsuits and...some of the word that we walked by, we are walking through the neighborhood way after the deadline to remove them from the homes and we are like "I guess that means F-you!" 

CB: Huh. Maybe. So not knowing the translation meaning you can project whatever [meaning].

JF: I think that's the message they are sending.

CB: Yeah, so I was going to turn to that next. Can you tell me what you know about the HRC controversy and then if you have any opinions on it?

JF: I think its a very good thing that people are interested in historic preservation but I think they go too far. I wouldn't want to see people replace windows on these historic homes over here with white vinyl windows, you know, put shingles over the brick or something, but I think they [the HRC] go too far sometimes.

RW: Yeah, I think, I knew that this was only a limited time project and I think I remember discussing, saying "That's a shame." Because its so cool. And you meet people and then you kind of-- like I met this woman Sharon at the opening event and I couldn't remember her name-- she said her word was "Baseball" so I saw her out in public one time and I just looked at her and I said "Baseball! I don't remember your name, I'm sorry, but I know you are the baseball house." So I think it brings community together. It is interesting when you meet someone that has the word and what it means to them, its a conversation starter, I think it would be a shame to lose.

JF: Yeah, and we went to the opening event that they had where they sort of had some readings and we met all these people and they had a slide show of all the home and the photos they took of us standing in front of our house. 

RW: So I hope that the community gets to win this. I think it is lovely, I don't think it is offensive at all.

JF: And the whole organization, City of Asylum, is a unique thing in the city and it is a treasure for this neighborhood.

CB: That leads really nicely into my last question which is, can you all tell me what you think about public art's broader role for the North Side, and maybe for the city of Pittsburgh?

RW: Well, I would definitely like to see more public art and I think in this neighborhood it has been emerging for decades but I think we are finally maybe at a tipping point. I think that it [public art] can play a great role in it [the neighborhood], especially in the Children's Museum when they put the cloud forest there and when something comes up its exciting. Even on Route 28 the murals that they did, coming into Deutschtown, I think its a great opportunity to showcase your neighborhood and just capture some of the cool art that's available.

JF: You know, we were in Barcelona a couple years ago, and that's probably the most prominent public art city I have ever been in in my life. And that really, for me, aesthetically, defines Barcelona. Its everything from very old public art to very contemporary public art, juxtaposed, side-by-side that, I mean, you could hardly walk a block in Barcelona and not see a major outdoor installation.

RW: And the North Side is such a walkable area of Pittsburgh. We don't have the hills, you know, and the struggles. Its just so easy to go and if we are going home, we can just walk on the River and say "Oh, lets just walk by the Children's Museum to see the clouds in the summer" or whatever, you know? Like, lets just go check this out.

JF: And we walk the streets over here all the time.

CB: That's great. Rebecca, you said the neighborhood has been emerging for a long time. Can you say more about what that means?

RW: Yeah, sure. I know that at one point in the neighborhood everyone who was wealthy enough moved north, and that's from what I understand, Route 65 and Route 279 cut through neighborhoods and kind of destroyed pieces of the neighborhoods because it just became the highways and everyone started to move out and then urban sprawl and what not...and I think a lot of these neighborhoods were actually slated to be knocked down and destroyed and the public got together and they saved them.

JF: That really began after the city annexed them. I mean, this used to be Allegheny City, it used to be a separate--

RW: Yeah, I mean, but in more recent years I think that a lot of people gravitated to the war streets, and not so much in the Manchester side, or the Deutschtown area. People took these homes and restored them. Out neighborhood even in the last four years that we havel ived there, houses are being restored, you see a lot of action on Western Avenue on the Allegheny West side there is all these restaurants that have popped up and you see this momentum and the Garden Theater district-- that Garden Theater. Its been a long time in the making, it still hasn't really come about but there is hope with the City of Asylum, and hopefully the theater itself will end up getting the restaurant and that sort of keeps joining everybody more together so its really cool just to see how much is coming along.

JF: That's why we chose this neighborhood to build our house, to live. I mean, we were trying to buy a house here at first and we ended up building, but we wanted to be part of that rejuvenating, emerging, we wanted to watch it build and watch it grow. We weren't interested in going to, we never considered going to Shadyside or Squirrel Hill, we wanted to be part of that. And I think that because everybody is working towards this common goal there is a lot of cameraderie. I mean, we have more friends in this neighborhood than probably everywhere I've lived put together in my entire life, in a very short time.

CB: Do you have any additional comments or anecdotes that you would like to share that I haven't given you a chance to talk about? 

JF: You gave us a pretty good chance to talk.

RW: Thank you.